Saturday, March 27, 2010

Par for the Course

After my last attempt to discuss the problems John Loftus has with debating he threatened me and a friend and generally poured insults over friends of mine and atheists throughout my local community. He had another debate recently and continued his routine of tough talk beforehand, embarrassing himself during, and insulting critics afterward. In a recent post he continued with his tradition of defending his embarrassing presentations with a litany of why atheists always win even though he still says he loses. I left an anonymous (as AtheistVet) comment:

Did he actually see your debates? Is he privy to your habit of losing debates, attacking atheists who point it out, and writing over and over again to show how your pathetic performances were totally justified?

If you're not going to take debates seriously then you really need to stop. If you are going to take them seriously commit yourself to do the hard work and learn how to debate effectively. It's useless to keep repeating this cycle of cocky pre-debate arrogance only to be followed by embarrassment at the debate and further embarrassing yourself afterward rationalizing it as okay and lashing out at anyone who notices.

Your disdain and insults for other atheists because you can't accept reality is way past getting old.

Without fail he immediately attacked the person instead of addressing the content:

John W. Loftus said...

Well, I can't say for sure AtheistVet is an atheist. It looks that way, doesn't it? But I know for a fact there are Christians who post here under different names all of the time, and this Blogger's account was just started this month with only eight hits, which can be accounted for by his comment here alone.

You see, this isn't a fair forum because of Christian liars like him. But Christians see me and my strategy as a threat. That I know. I wonder why? ;-)
March 27, 2010 11:25 AM

John W. Loftus said...

AtheistVet, if you come back please deny Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that he's not your Lord and Savior.
March 27, 2010 11:34 AM

John W. Loftus said...

If he does not respond I will delete his comment as the spam that it is.
March 27, 2010 11:34 AM

I dropped the anonymous username to point out that this was the very reason why I had been commenting anonymously, but by that time he had already deleted the comment (itchy finger trigger to destroy dissent?). He has since deleted all of his own comments and mine.

It was an interesting little episode and more confirmation in my opinion of my original comment. Calling all atheists. Don't invite this guy for your debates unless you just want to be made to look foolish by his representation and insulted and conspiratorially accused of being who knows what if you dare criticize him. This guy has about as much business debating as I do preaching.

Before the delete-fest though it appears that at least one other person on there agreed in part:

As for AtheistVet's comment.A valid point was made. When you ask for feedback on debates, you have to be open to it. It doesn't mean you have to agree with it or like it, but don't always be so defensive. "If it doesn't apply, let it fly." Your reputation speaks for itself on matters of debunking. I'm not saying that you should be a doormat for the ignorant, but positive criticism from supporters usually includes good intentions.

One would hope he will eventually knock this childish stuff off and take the advice finally after the umpteenth millionth time. I had initially backed away from criticizing at all after his initial threats. But after his most recent debate he continued the same behavior all over again. The routine in a nutshell is insulting those who didn't mix any criticism with at least some sucking up for him to appreciate and generally refusing to take to heart the same criticism as before: his presentation is deplorable, he fails miserably at countering the arguments of the other debaters, and is desperately in need of accepting a dose of reality on his inability to be effective at debating generally.

No amount of insults, conspiracies, deleting of comments, threats, or post after post of defensive arguments after a debate will make him a more effective debater. As I said above, he either needs to start taking this seriously, start seriously addressing the criticisms, and do the hard work it takes to become effective at debate... or he needs to stop.

Denying reality is the stuff of Young Earth Creationist history deniers. Atheists should know better.


1 comment:

cafewitteveen said...

I have no idea how or if kvetching about John Loftus is going to make a dent in others perceptions.

I hope it does. His "popularity" is an interesting case study, which at the moment, I liken to the popularity of Glenn Beck. Or trying to convince a believer toward atheism. We can make solid points all day long, but it doesn't seem to make any difference.